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04:00:46: <SusWombat> Hey everyone
08:35:55: <impomatic> Hi SusWombat :-)
08:36:36: <SusWombat> impomatic, Does this game have still active players? is it still worth getting into as newbie?
08:36:40: <SusWombat> sry for the questions ^^
08:37:46: <impomatic> Yes, still quite a few active players. There are 24 entries (so far) to the Easter tournament.
08:38:16: <impomatic> There are quite a few new players, so there's always someone to compete with on the same level :-)
08:38:47: <SusWombat> impomatic, well depends on their level ^^
08:39:09: <SusWombat> Im a pretty beginner to maybe if mediocre dev
08:39:54: <impomatic> Everything you need can be found on the following five websites http://corewar.co.uk, http://www.corewar.info, http://koth.org, http://sal.discontinuity.info, https://users.obs.carnegiescience.edu/birk/COREWAR/koenigstuhl.html
08:40:23: <impomatic> There are Core War players who've never programmed in any other language.
08:40:41: <SusWombat> impomatic, damn i run out of excuses :D
08:40:53: <SusWombat> impomatic, I guess i have to try :D Thanks for the help
08:51:44: <impomatic> You're welcome.
08:52:13: <impomatic> It's a bit late to enter the Easter tournament (deadline in a few hours) but there will be another tournament in the Autumn.
08:52:42: <impomatic> Otherwise there's the king of the hill servers to play on :-)
08:52:45: <SusWombat> impomatic, but i can still play? or only through the tournaments?
08:52:48: <SusWombat> aaaah okay
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09:21:29: <inversed> Hi impomatic
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09:57:55: <SusWombat> Anyone here using linux?
09:58:38: <impomatic> Not me :-(
09:59:15: <impomatic> Most Linux players are using pMARS which can be a bit tricky to compile with the graphics display. But it compiles easily without.
10:00:08: <inversed_> Not me either
10:00:22: <impomatic> Hi Inversed :-)
10:01:10: <inversed_> Hi all
10:01:13: <inversed_> Impomatic, have you received my latest entries?
10:01:30: <impomatic> 24 entries so far. It's still 25th March in Hawaii, so a few more might come through in time for the deadline!
10:02:52: <impomatic> Inversed, 23rd March, Leaflets and Borefest?
10:03:14: <impomatic> Sorry I didn't reply to the email. We've been busy over the last few days.
10:04:09: <inversed_> Ok, no problem
10:04:37: <SusWombat> impomatic, ok so pMARS? nMARS would be a option too right?
10:04:53: <SusWombat> aaah wait no ...
10:04:55: <SusWombat> 06/03/2007 - nMars0.9.4 - IDE on Mono/Linux (currently doesn't work on Mono again :-(
10:05:22: <inversed_> Maybe just use Wine with CoreWin?
10:05:42: <inversed_> Because CoreWin has nice visualization and debug features
10:05:48: <SusWombat> okay
10:05:53: <SusWombat> inversed_, im gonna try! :)
10:11:39: <inversed_> impomatic, I had a feeling that there are going to be lots of imp-based warriors
10:12:00: <inversed_> Have you received anything besides papaers and paper/imps?
10:12:08: <inversed_> *papers
10:12:33: <impomatic> Inversed: does the Snake game actually involve programming or is it just template matching? I couldn't do much with the demo version I downloaded :-(
10:13:05: <inversed_> Template matching as far as I can remember
10:14:09: <impomatic> From a quick look through the strategy lines, entries include stone/imp, bomber, clear, vampire, oneshot, evolved :-)
10:14:47: <inversed_> That's good
10:15:00: <inversed_> But we'll see how many of them pass the qualification
10:15:20: <inversed_> By the way, easter tournament coincides with the Moscow chess candidates tournament
10:15:45: <impomatic> Are you participating in the chess tournament?
10:16:19: <inversed_> No, had to decline invitation in favour of corewar :)
10:16:25: <impomatic> :-)
10:16:59: <inversed_> But sometimes I play on lichess.org
10:19:36: <SusWombat> How long does it take on ~ to get into redcode?
10:20:00: <SusWombat> I guess its harder nowadays? Cause im like used to higher level langs?
10:20:45: <inversed_> Not really
10:20:48: <impomatic> SusWombat: I program assembly anyway, so it didn't take me long to write a few warriors from scratch to enter the beginner's hill.
10:21:08: <inversed_> I only knew Pascal before learning redcode
10:21:22: <SusWombat> I only know stuff like js and python and the basics of c
10:21:26: <impomatic> Redcode only has a few opcodes, so doesn't take long to learn.
10:21:40: <impomatic> I'm popping out for a few hours. Back later.
10:21:49: <SusWombat> impomatic, bye
10:21:57: <inversed_> Ok, laters
10:22:04: <impomatic> Hopefully the results from the qualification round will be posted early tomorrow :-)
10:22:04: <inversed_> Learning redcode is the easy part
10:22:07: * impomatic waves
10:22:31: <SusWombat> inversed_, yeah im also completely new to ai :/
10:22:38: <SusWombat> Can i learn ai through corewars?
10:22:50: <inversed_> Kind of
10:23:06: <inversed_> CoreWar is a great platform for evolutionary computations
10:23:30: <inversed_> There is a number of evolvers that generate warriors through genetic algorithms
10:23:38: <inversed_> I even wrote one myself
10:24:34: <inversed_> The hard part is not learning redcode, but mastering the game
10:24:59: <inversed_> Just like in chess, learning the moves is easy but mastering the game takes years
10:25:13: <SusWombat> inversed_, do you think its a good way to get into ai? or should i first look into ai and then into CoreWars?
10:26:05: <inversed_> No, I don't think it is a good way into AI
10:26:36: <inversed_> The closest thing to CoreWar is ALife, not AI
10:27:24: <inversed_> But nowdays AI is such a broad term
10:28:08: <inversed_> I'd say learn the two in parallel!
10:28:38: <SusWombat> okay
10:29:01: <SusWombat> Well atm i cant even imagine building a programm with more then 20 lines in "assembly" O:
10:29:26: <inversed_> I only learned real assembly after CoreWar
10:30:55: <inversed_> And _very_ few competitive CoreWar programs have more than say 16 "real" instructions
10:31:34: <SusWombat> o.O
10:32:19: <inversed_> Being tiny is advantageous
10:32:41: <inversed_> Because you are unlikely to be hit or detected
10:35:34: <inversed_> Simple stone warrior only contains about 4 instructions
10:41:05: <SusWombat> So warriors with a lot of instructions are bad?
10:42:44: <inversed_> They are fragile
10:43:14: <inversed_> Because they are likely to be hit with a dat bomb
10:44:50: <inversed_> Most tasks can be accomplished with a few instructions, so you do not need lots of instructions anyway
10:46:49: <SusWombat> oh ok redcode really seems to be easy
10:46:59: <inversed_> You also need some more instructions to boot your code at the beginning of the game
10:48:04: <inversed_> Yes, it is fairly easy and logical
10:48:46: <inversed_> The only thing you'll have to get used to is indirect addresation
10:57:23: <SusWombat> There is a 93 pages book in german (my native lang) o.O
10:58:41: <inversed_> Wow
10:59:43: <inversed_> I'd recommend starting with a shorter redcode guide
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11:00:28: <inversed_> And when you are comfortable with redcode, continue with CoreWarrior newsletter
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11:07:06: <SusWombat> inversed_, well first i need to find out if core wars is what im looking for :D
11:11:15: <inversed_> Then read a random CoreWarrior issue
11:11:41: <inversed_> Even if you don't understand a thing, you'll get an overall impression of the game
11:12:04: <SusWombat> I slowly get it i think
11:12:13: <SusWombat> And atm i think it might not be what im looking for O:
11:12:35: <SusWombat> I mean i get a rough idea . Not the whole game ofc
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