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16:46:09: <arr28> I'm running an introductory core war session a week on Friday and am trying to contact the owner of the hills at sal.discontinuity.info. Anybody know how I can get in touch with him/her?
17:00:53: <impomatic> Hi arr28
17:01:21: <impomatic> bvowk: arr28 needs you :-)
17:02:24: <impomatic> arr28: where is the session?
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17:46:56: <arr28_> In Enfield, North London
17:49:20: <arr28_> It's a small part of a bigger event for all the software engineers in the company I work for.
18:14:43: <impomatic> Let up know if you need any help. I assume you'll run a tournament at the end of the session?
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18:22:47: <arr28_> I work with a smart bunch and I'm a beginner here too, so I hope we'll muddle through together. I just plan to provide links to resource, instructions, etc..
18:24:43: <arr28_> What do you recommend as the best guide, for a techie bunch who'll probably just need a few pointers?
18:24:56: <arr28_> http://vyznev.net/corewar/guide.html seems good.
18:25:08: <impomatic> Yes, I was going to recommend that one.
18:25:13: <Doxin> that's a great guide for sure
18:25:32: <impomatic> I'm working on a strategy guide, but it's incomplete :-(
18:25:37: <arr28_> Is there a straight redcode reference?
18:26:15: <Doxin> the ref is very dry imo
18:26:19: <impomatic> There's the standard, but it's not really a tutorial http://corewar.co.uk/standards/icws94.txt
18:26:40: <impomatic> Something needs to be written when one of us gets time :-)
18:27:03: <arr28_> Ah - that's what I was looking for. (Just to complement a tutorial / guide.)
18:28:02: <arr28_> And yes, I'm planning to run a competition throughout. That's why I'm trying to contact the KoTH owner. I'm guessing that (in just 2 hours) we'd be unlikely to get onto the bottom of the beginners hill, so I was wondering what other options there might be.
18:30:06: <Doxin> arr28_: you can get a mars and just pit the programs written against eachother
18:31:06: <Doxin> your own manually run koth basically
18:34:57: <arr28_> Sure - but there'll be a fair few of us, so rather than reinventing the submission / results wheel, I thought I'd see if I could reuse an existing one.
18:37:08: <Doxin> arr28_: it could be as simple as getting people to submit their warriors to a shared folder, and running a command
18:37:39: <Doxin> at least the windows gui mars has a setting to automatically run a round-robin tournament on a set of warriors
18:37:48: <Doxin> others probably do too
18:38:07: <arr28_> That possible works. If I go down that route, which of the simulators would be best for having up on a big screen?
18:38:29: <Doxin> http://corewar.co.uk/wendell/ is probably a good choice. it's easy to use at least
18:38:41: <Doxin> it does graphics and you can run through the tournament at any speed you like
18:42:01: <Doxin> it'll run under wine too if you're on linux
18:43:02: <arr28_> Windows
18:53:21: <Doxin> I suggest you go play with it a bit so you know the ins and outs before the tournament
18:54:10: <arr28_> Yep - that's why I'm trying to ask all me questions now!
18:57:01: <Doxin> :D
19:41:45: <bvowk> What's the questions about Sal?
19:42:03: <bvowk> If you want to sling a lot of warriors at it, I think it'll behave itself pretty well.
20:26:24: <Doxin> bvowk: he wants to run his own tournament and was asking about that
20:26:34: <Doxin> bvowk: I got him going at running a tournament using a mars
20:37:11: <bvowk> Cool :)
20:37:25: <Doxin> yepyep
20:37:35: <Doxin> I should write some software to run a tournament at some point
20:37:42: <Doxin> something that's easy to throw on the big screen
20:38:21: <bvowk> I have a python script that spits out a hill.
20:38:30: <bvowk> But that's not especially exciting.
20:38:35: <Doxin> right
20:38:37: <impomatic> There's MTS which schedules a round-robin tournament by calling any MARS.
20:38:46: <impomatic> It needs fixing though...
20:39:06: <Doxin> isn't there some mars around that's easy to embed? that'd make stuff a bunch easier.
20:39:17: <impomatic> It has a max of 200 warriors and doesn't like warrior names starting with a numeral.
20:39:24: <Doxin> yikes
20:39:28: <impomatic> exmars
20:40:28: <Doxin> got a link to a homepage somewhere?
20:42:30: <verpeteren> a long-long time ago, i've found a `koth.c` somewhere online. It used pmars in the background.
20:42:43: <Doxin> fancy
20:44:30: <Doxin> alright lets see if I can get exmars jigged up so it'll work.
20:46:43: <Doxin> hrm
20:47:01: <Doxin> I'm trying to disect how the ruby interface works but I can't find anything...
20:52:02: <impomatic> There's a new version of exMARS on Github
20:52:34: <impomatic> Somewhere in here https://github.com/martinus/YaceReloaded
20:55:19: <Doxin> I'm currently poking at exhaust. exmars' interface for anything but ruby is pretty bad it seems
21:00:50: <verpeteren> i've found that 'koth.c' thingy on my nas
21:02:51: <impomatic> Is it the one by Phil Kendall? http://www.shadowmagic.org.uk//corewar/koth.html
21:03:19: <impomatic> Interesting that it also had the bug with warrior names beginning with a digit.
21:03:34: <verpeteren> yes, it appears that one
21:03:44: <verpeteren> http://pastebin.com/dWnYz66G
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22:08:53: <Doxin> what the heck?
22:09:01: <Doxin> exhaust doesn't support org with a label?
22:09:18: <impomatic> No, but exmars should
22:09:32: <Doxin> well crap
22:09:40: <Doxin> I put rather a lot of effort into getting this to work at all :I
22:10:11: <impomatic> exhaust takes precompiled Redcode. exmars is exhaust with the redcode compiler from pmars added.
22:10:18: <Doxin> ah
22:10:35: <Doxin> do they happen to have the same interface by any chance?
22:10:45: <impomatic> I'm not sure :-(
22:11:03: <Doxin> well I guess I'll be writing bindings for exmars then :I
22:12:53: <Doxin> oh, my work wasn't all for naught. exmars uses the exhaust headers for its api
22:13:33: <Doxin> wait...
22:13:41: <Doxin> well crap. that's no good :I
22:13:49: <Doxin> impomatic: exmars doesn't have a C api at all.
22:16:47: <impomatic> You could try to add the parser from pMARS yourself... not sure how easy that would be.
22:19:59: <Doxin> my guess is pretty damn hard. the source for pmars is a massive mess
22:20:28: <Doxin> I'm contemplating just calling out to pmars to preprocess the warriors
22:26:43: <Doxin> hm I might be able to jig up exmars so it'll work. fingers crossed
22:27:52: <Doxin> well that's probably easier than I expected. I found a "pmars2exhaust" function...
22:28:05: <impomatic> :-)
22:28:48: <Doxin> lets just see if I can get that function to interface to my code :P
22:33:26: <bvowk> hrm.
22:35:23: <Doxin> also: the gnu gpl is a terrible license.
22:45:04: <Doxin> does anyone know who the author of exmars is? I'd love to see exmars released under lgpl.
22:45:16: <impomatic> Martin Ankerl
22:46:56: <bvowk> bah.
22:46:58: <bvowk> BSD ;)
22:47:27: <Doxin> I'm not a huge fan of lgpl either mind you, but at least it doesn't infect programs that link it
22:47:50: <impomatic> +1 for BSD :-)
22:48:27: <Doxin> I tend to go with the mit license
22:49:00: <Doxin> it allows pretty much anyone to do anything with what you made, except claim credit.
23:00:17: <arr28_> Thanks guys - Joonas has got back to me and kindly offered to set up a hill for the event. I think I'll go with that as the primary plan and keep the Wendell simulator up my sleeve as a backup option in case anything goes wrong. (I've been trying it out this evening and it all seems fine.)
23:02:14: <bvowk> Uh oh. You said his name on the channel.
23:02:23: <impomatic> CoreWin might still be handy if you want to demonstrate a battle in progress on a projector or something.
23:02:36: <bvowk> We refer to him as He Who Asked Not To Be Mentioned ;)
23:04:26: <impomatic> There's lots of people with the same first name.
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23:13:10: <Doxin> ah crap this is impossible. it's a hack on top of a cludge on top of old software :I
23:15:02: <Doxin> impomatic: I don't suppose there's a MARS with a sane C api?
23:16:42: <impomatic> Sorry, I'm not sure. There's qmars and fmars but I doubt they're any better.
23:17:11: <Doxin> ech
23:17:46: <Doxin> ECH I SAY!
23:22:11: <Doxin> impomatic: got a link to the corewars specification? I keep losing that link
23:22:39: <impomatic> http://corewar.co.uk/standards/
23:23:33: <Doxin> thanks
23:57:21: <bvowk> What's wrong with exhaust?
23:57:36: <bvowk> It's pretty nice..
23:58:14: <bvowk> You can always use pmars to parse the warriors and output them in a simplified state you can parse with exhaust.
23:59:38: <Doxin> bvowk: I'm trying to get all this working without having my program call another program. so I'd need to write bindings for pmars to do the assembling
23:59:44: <Doxin> which is nigh impossible
23:59:48: <Doxin> exhaust is doable enough
23:59:55: <Doxin> so I'm currently writing my own assembler.